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      aptivaboy


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      Post #75291, posted on 04-30-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Hi all,

      I'm thinking of doing a What If Zvezda 748 build. Is the 748's vertical tail the same as the 747-100/200/400's? That would make sizing decals much easier if they were the same. I've done some online checking and they seem to be the same, but as we all know, the devil is in the details. I'm thinking of a Continental 748, as I prefer to think that the merger never happened. Yeah, livin' in the past!

      Thanks for any ideas.

      Bob

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      Ray


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      Post #75295, posted on 04-30-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Hi Bob,


      You're cleared for take off all Boeing-747 tails are the same except for SP.

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      gavmh


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      Post #75310, posted on 04-30-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      No they are not, sorry to rain into your parade. The 747-400 and 748 have an extended fairing/dorsal fin. You may compare it on my web site. Otherwise, they are the same.

      Kurt

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      aptivaboy


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      Post #75315, posted on 04-30-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Interesting. I wasn't aware of that, thank you!

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      scotty100368


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      Post #75321, posted on 04-30-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      I think what Kurt is referring to is the larger dorsal fillet at the forward base of the fin, like so:



      As to the Revell & Zvezda kits, the -400 and -8 fins are similar, but the Revell -100/-200 tail is shorter in height and the leading & trailing edges are more upright in comparison.

      Cheers!

      Scott Garard
      YSCB/CBR

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      aro757


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      Post #75322, posted on 04-30-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Also, the bottom portion of the rudder on the -8 looks to be double-hinged.

      Regards,

      ahmed

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      scotty100368


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      Post #75323, posted on 04-30-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Quote
      aro757 :
      Also, the bottom portion of the rudder on the -8 looks to be double-hinged.


      Correct! (I forgot to add that)

      Scott Garard
      YSCB/CBR

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      Ray


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      Post #75324, posted on 04-30-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Quote
      scotty100368 :
      I think what Kurt is referring to is the larger dorsal fillet at the forward base of the fin, like so:



      As to the Revell & Zvezda kits, the -400 and -8 fins are similar, but the Revell -100/-200 tail is shorter in height and the leading & trailing edges are more upright in comparison.

      Cheers!




      Hi Kurt, you're not raining into my parade at all sir. Look at NORTHWEST BOEING-747-400 photos which was the launch customer for the -400 and others that followed you can clearly see they had the early type dorsal fillet installed. But BOEING updated dorsal fillet latter on to all of THEIR BOEING-747-400 but early production BOEING-747-400 had the early type dorsal fillets installed as pictured on this Air New Zealand BOEING-747-400 probably. I should have asked Bob which airline color scheme he was intending to build because since early and late production B-747-400 had dorsal fillet changes.

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      Jennings


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      Post #75330, posted on 04-30-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Structurally all 747-100/200/300/400/8 fins are the same. As noted, beginning somewhere around line number 950 (I'd love to know exactly if anyone can find out) the small extra fairing at the base was added. And yes, the rudder on the -8 is double hinged.

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      LH707


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      Post #75335, posted on 05-01-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Dammit!! I was wondering why the Revell -8i and the AA 400 looked a bit different, and now I have my answer. This also means that my own build is wrong because it's supposed to have the newer fairing, but has the old one molded in the kit. Oh well, life will go on....

      One tidbit I found out while checking this is that some carriers actually retrofitted the fairings. See here PB-BFL in 1993 and in 2012:

      https://www.airliners.net/photo/KLM-Royal-Dutch-Airlines/Boeing-747-406/5956279
      https://www.airliners.net/photo/KLM-Royal-Dutch-Airlines/Boeing-747-406/2133540


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      ACAPSreader


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      Post #76069, posted on 06-28-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Quote
      aptivaboy :
      Hi all,

      I'm thinking of doing a What If Zvezda 748 build. Is the 748's vertical tail the same as the 747-100/200/400's? That would make sizing decals much easier if they were the same. I've done some online checking and they seem to be the same, but as we all know, the devil is in the details.




      To belatedly rain a little more on this parade (and I'm sorry I'm adding to this thread late, but this isn't something I've seen extensively discussed), the horizontal tail changed on the 747-8, too.

      According to Boeing, the 747-8 has a narrower-span horizontal stabilizer, being 72'2" instead of 72'9" like the -100/-200/-300/-400. On each side, then, it's lost about 3.5" in width.

      The weird part is this:

      In the 747-100 (etc.), the trailing edge tip of the horizontal stabilizer is 229'2" from the nose, according to Boeing's ACAPS documentation. This makes it 48" aft of STA 2792, the end of the fuselage.

      Side note: On the 747SP, this "overhang" is said to be 6.5' (78") (176'9" vs. 183'3"). This sort of makes sense, since the SP has 60" tip extensions. Raw calculation (by extending the lines of the 747-100 horizontal stabilizer) would suggest that the different should be 5.5', not 6.5'. However, that discrepancy nearly vanishes when you account for the fact that the aft fuselage of the 747SP, including the stabilizer box, is rotated downward compared to the rest of the airframe.

      However, on the 747-8, the numbers stop making sense. Boeing says the trailing edge is 246'10" aft of the nose on the -8. This makes it 40" aft of the last fuselage station (which is 243.5' aft of the nose). So, somehow, a 3.5" narrowing on what is approximately a 16-degree angle, rather than shifting the trailing edge point forward by 1" (3.5 x tan 16), moves it forward by 8" instead. That's not mathematically possible. So, only two possibilities seem valid: (a) the ACAPS documentation is wrong (which wouldn't be the first time, I know), or (b) the location of the horizontal stabilizer within the fuselage itself was moved by about 6-7" forward of its position on earlier 747s.

      I know it wouldn't show up except on a very detailed model, but it's not something I've ever seen explained, and it is a difference. Does anyone know anything about that?

      (Sorry that my first post was such a technical, pedantic one. I've long enjoyed visiting this site. Glad to have joined!)

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      aro757


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      Post #76077, posted on 06-28-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Welcome ACAPSreader and thanks for the detailed post.

      Regards,

      ahmed

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      LH707


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      Post #76091, posted on 06-28-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Thanks for that elaboration on the 747-8 ACAPs, my bet is that it's simply wrong. I thought the whole point of the -8 was to make as few changes as possible to maintain commonality and keep costs down, so a small change in stabilizer span would likely mess that up. My guess is that someone added up the widths of components and forgot the end caps, took the fuselage width at the wrong station, or something like that, and there's now a little discrepancy.