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      Ken Miller


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      Post #75545, posted on 05-17-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      The discussion about Clint and ATP on the chat jump started my memory. Clint passed in 2015.

      I would like to do a timeline of when he worked for TWA, started ATP, moved to San Jose, when his mom Irene passed, when he moved to Gustine, and when the company closed and he moved to Lake Isabella.

      He was at Abelia Court when I started going there around 1996. The 2000/2001 catalog is from Gustine.

      Could people help me with some dates?

      Ken

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      Sparky


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      Post #75547, posted on 05-17-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Clint was working at SFO for TWA.One of the first people he met there was the late Dean Slaybaugh,who had a photo service called Wings of Progress.This inspired Clint to start his own called Air Transport Photography,or ATP.He started selling hobby products about 1975.He wass selling the old Kader kits from Hong Kong along with other products.He wanted Capital decals for the Connie,so he had his own made.Lloyd Jones did the art and they were printed by Colortone.He was living in Pacifica at this time.He expanded the company and moved to San Jose around 1980.He was laid off at TWA about 1983,rather than relocate,and worked for United for a while.His mother died in either 1991 or 1992.He moved to Justine in the mid 1990s,where he had a brick and mortar store,along with the mail order.He shut this down in the early 2000s and moved to his last residence near Bakersfield.
      Clint was a good friend,I still miss him.
      Mike Sparkman

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      aro757


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      Post #75548, posted on 05-17-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      I'll see what I can find through emails for a more definite timeline, but what Mike has stated above is pretty close. He moved twice after Gustine, I'll see what I can find. Here's the old ATP website if you're interested in having a look: http://atp.airlinercafe.com/

      Regards,

      ahmed

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      Sparky


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      Post #75549, posted on 05-17-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      I started dealing with Clint,both in duplicate slides and models/decals in the fall of 1977.I even remember some kid named Ahmed helping him shoot duplicates.
      Sparky

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      Ken Miller


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      Post #75550, posted on 05-17-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Thanks Mike for the info. I figured that you could fill in some of the dates. You and others were lucky to have him as a friend. ATP for decals and kits, His slide business, building vacuforms video, and his two Motorbooks which I don't think anyone has mentioned yet are all part of his legacy.

      Looking through the Jetliners book I see that Clint dedicated it to his mother.

      "This book is dedicated to the memory of my mother, Irene Kelly Groves. Born Irene Kelly in Philadelphia in 1916, she was the daughter of an L&N Railroad Foreman. Growing up in Irvine, Ravena, and Hazard, Kentucky, she became hooked on aviation the first time she saw a wood and fabric Waco biplane. Her dreams were shattered when upon graduating from Hazard High School her father, J. Kirklin Kelly, would not let her study Aeronautical Engineerig. "Young ladies do not do that sort of thing" he told her. You can take teaching or nursing; otherwise you stay at home.
      I hope that I was able to make a difference in her life. We shared together many light-plane flights, and she was able to travel most of the globe through my twenty-three years' employment with TWA. She was more than a mother, she was a best friend.

      A few weeks late but but a timely tribute to share for Mothers Day.

      Ken

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      aro757


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      Post #75551, posted on 05-17-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Yeah, those were the good ole days...

      I have an email from him dated Apr 9, 2011:

      Having moved three times since Gustine I have a lot of model breakage and I've sort of lost interest. The airline hobby was my life for so many years it was nice to get away from it..

      Address at bottom of email says Weldon, CA. In another email he mentions that he moved there September 2005.

      Regards,

      ahmed

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      AirPhotoOne


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      Post #75552, posted on 05-17-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      The last time I talked to Clint on the phone to order, I was shocked!

      First, when I called I didn't say my name so I was just any other customer on the phone. Being cordial, I asked how he was. He started right off by saying "... well, I just spent $1000.00 for sex toys and hookers" OMG, how do you respond to that? After a long pause, I acted like I didn't hear him and went right into my order.

      I think the last time I saw him was at one of the AI shows, LAX maybe.

      Clint was always a surprise, in person or on the phone. What a character!

      Tim

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      Post #75553, posted on 05-17-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      It is very nice to remember the airliner hobby fellows that have departed the traffic pattern.
      Clint got me into Vacuforms. His vac video is a time piece. We talked for hours on the phone even through the dark times.
      Funny, we were close, we talked about "everything" even though I never met him in person.
      Then you mention Dean Slaybaugh, "Sasquash", never meat the guy either but I got to know all about him from E.J Weldon aka CBS models.
      Then there is Vince Klimas, yup Scaleliners and my best friend who did the art for him, Dave Rider.
      It is a good time to remember all those great airliners guys and to thank others that are still with us, Liveries Unlimited, wow, J you change the hobby even though you are hard to handle, Ahmed incredible decals and founder of a great airliner site and numero uno on my list Welsh Models, Densil always provided with the rare and unique airliners.
      Contrails, Russell, Daco, BraZ,Authentic Airliners, FResin and all the guys that provided resin engines, Sparky, Skunk works, etc.
      Sorry if I miss anyone.
      Thanks guys!

      Walter

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      aro757


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      Post #75554, posted on 05-17-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Quote
      AirPhotoOne :
      The last time I talked to Clint on the phone to order, I was shocked!

      First, when I called I didn't say my name so I was just any other customer on the phone. Being cordial, I asked how he was. He started right off by saying "... well, I just spent $1000.00 for sex toys and hookers" OMG, how do you respond to that? After a long pause, I acted like I didn't hear him and went right into my order.

      Tim



      LOL! That's totally Clint! He said things like that a lot, I wasn't always sure if he was joking or being serious. Sometimes I feel like he said it just to be funny or get attention.

      Clint was a true gentleman! The most honest person you could ever meet. Always stuck to his word and a handshake was, well, a handshake, and that's all that it took. Definitely not a great business man, but a great man!

      Regards,

      ahmed

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      Jeff Jarvis


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      Post #75555, posted on 05-17-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Greetings!

      Yes, he was a really great guy and quite a character. I first started doing business with him buying duplicate slides around 1972-3 or thereabouts when I was in college at Embry-Riddle. As said before, he was completely honest and never failed to deliver quickly and correctly on every order I ever placed, whether it was duplicate slides, decals or model kits or a mixture of all of the above.

      One day I called him to shoot the breeze, catch up on things, and place an order and he told me about his trip back home from town a few minutes earlier. At the time he was already in the desert in the mobile home, so I guess that was in Gustine (?) or maybe another place after that. Anyway, he was tooling along in a Cadillac (or a Lincoln?) on a 2 lane perfectly straight highway as flat as a pancake and doing 110 MPH and he saw a farmer in a pickup truck creating a dust trail approaching the highway from the right, and the guy never stopped at the stop sign and turned right onto the highway right in front of him! I asked him how close he was to the intersection and he said 50-60 yards! I said, "Well, obviously you aren't dead or in the hospital, so what happened?" He told me he just swerved slightly to the right onto the desert and threw up a stream of rocks, gravel, sand and whatever else there was and then swerved back onto the highway once he was past the farmer and kept on going, still doing 110! Clint was one cool as a cucumber guy! If I had been with him, I think I probably would have soiled my breeches!

      Best regards,
      Jeff Jarvis

      God's "Curse" to aviation!

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      aro757


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      Post #75557, posted on 05-18-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Oh yeah, Clint was pretty much a maniac behind the wheel. I like to drive fast and probably take too many risks, but I was scared to get in the car with him.

      One summer afternoon I was in the garage packing orders as Clint returned from his almost daily trip to George's Burgers by SJC. He loved that place! Drink in hand, as he walked into the garage, the phone rang. He picked up the phone and a lady asked for the owner of the business. Clint replied, "this is him", and almost immediately I could hear her blaring a bunch of obscenities and how she would like to get the driver of the ATP van fired because he drove recklessly, cut her off, slammed on the brakes, almost caused an accident, etc. etc. Clint was calm and kept apologizing and assured her that he would have a talk with the driver and make sure this never happens again. Well, that day, Clint had decided to take the ATP van instead of his souped-up Thunderbird, and the van had the ATP logo, phone number, etc. all over it. He told me the story and we both had a good laugh afterwards...

      Jeff - no, Clint lived in a really nice house in Gustine, paid in cash. He sold his house in San Jose and bought the house in Gustine for about 1/4 the price.

      Regards,

      ahmed

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      Post #75560, posted on 05-18-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      In 1999 I was going to be in San Francisco for a few days and I made mention of it on the old Airliner Modelling Digest. A few hours later I got an e-mail from Clint offering to meet me at SFO and take me to the shop for a visit. I might have taken him up on the offer had my traveling companion not been arriving not long after I arrived. Something tells me that not only would Clint have gotten me back in time to meet my friend, but he might have driven me there and back at a speed faster than the TriStar that had just brought me in from Atlanta.

      Clint and the Airliners America catalog, as well as his "Jetliners" book I happened across in 1994, are responsible for me getting back into airliner modeling with a vengeance, and in so many ways it led me to so much that happened in the years since. You really can't capture today in the Internet era, when you can find so many computer-generated and custom-printed decals, what kind of a revelation it was to get Clint's catalog and see so many decals and kits available for types and liveries you never knew were available. I'm thankful for what we have now but I miss the sense of wonder that those catalogs could bring and the anticipation that came when you opened the package when your order arrived. Those were fun times. (And I knew I was at home when the first Airliners America catalog I got had a color cover depicting several model airliners at a miniature terminal...and alongside was a cat enjoying a can of food.)

      One mystery that has lingered is the origins of the name "Mun Ruc Ding," which was the brand Clint used for a few products and the occasional fictional airline livery. Anyone have any insight on that? I think Jim Galloway (and there's someone I miss more than I can find words for) told a version of where the name came from, and it was kind of ribald. If there's more, I'd love to hear it. It has haunted my brain for years....

      Jodie Peeler

      "In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law

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      Post #75561, posted on 05-18-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Absolutely irrelevant to information Ken is seeking, but after reading the posts above, I have to share my experience with ATP.

      I mowed lawns in my neighborhood, and spent nearly every dollar earned buying things from the super cool ATP catalog. I would give my mom the cash, she would write a check, and off to 3014 Abelia Ct. My order would go! About a week later (every time!) my order would arrive on a UPS truck. I might have the UPS delivery confused, as my Brookhurst Hobbies orders were also delivered. Anyway, without fail, the orders were always timely, and never incorrect!

      Sometime from 82-84 we were in the area of San Jose on a camping trip. When I say in the area, I mean Northern California! I begged and pleaded mom and dad for a side trip to ATP. After relenting, we drove to San Jose. Now, none of us knew that ATP was run from a house. We were searching for a super awesome store. Imagine our frustration of Our GPS (map) taking us to a neighborhood! After re-checking and some more driving, we decided to knock on the door. We figured maybe the people that live at this address could help. A nice older lady answered the door, and as my dad explained what we were looking for, and could she help, she told us we were at the right spot. So, completely unannounced (we thought we were going to a store) this nice lady invited us into her home. Clint must have been at work, I never did meet him, oh the questions I had for the guy that built those planes in the catalog! But, as a consolation, I got to see many of those models! After giving us the grand tour, I asked if I could buy anything. She of course, said yes. So, out comes my catalog and I show her what I want, plus a couple other things I spotted walking around. About $100 worth of good stuff! The one I remember most was a resin PSA Bae-146.

      Just a memory from a kid, hence no name for that nice lady, as it was forgotten the second I saw the airplanes! Her kindness, has been remembered for almost 40 years now!

      Keep em separated!
      Steve

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      Ken Miller


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      Post #75564, posted on 05-18-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Great stories and reminiscing. I looked up the Gustine ATP address and see that it is now Gustine City Hall :-) Who would have thought? I think before Clint bought? it that it was a former department store. Gustine is on the way to Castle Air Base/Museum so after Clint moved from San Jose stopping at ATP was a must when going to Castle. For those who don't know Gustine is a small town in the California Central Valley. As of 2010 the population was 5000. One of my favorite ATP/Castle trips was on Veterans Day. I was with my uncle and his friend who were visiting from England. We heard music and saw that there was a Veterans Day parade coming down the road. Maybe 20 people if that in the parade comprised of a high school band and a small group of Veterans. The town was small enough that we were able to see the parade at one street crossing and drive down a few blocks to watch it again. If you had blinked you would have missed it all. It was a great experience for my visitors to see "small town America" for real.

      Ken


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      Ken Miller


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      Post #75565, posted on 05-18-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      For Steve XRadar I think that your wondeful memory is very relevant to my questions. What a GREAT story. A family "adventure" and credit to your parents for taking a detour to ATP. I have a similar story about a family detour to an Indiana hobby shop that was way out of our way. Big shout out to everyone's parents who nuturured/supported/encouraged our hobby endeavors.

      I'd bet money that the nice lady who let you in, gave you a tour, and sold you the supplies was Clint's mom Irene. I'm quite certain that she had passed away before I started going to ATP but EVERYONE spoke very favorably about her.

      Ken

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      Jeff Jarvis


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      Post #75566, posted on 05-18-2020 GMT-5 hours    
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      aro757 :
      Jeff - no, Clint lived in a really nice house in Gustine, paid in cash. He sold his house in San Jose and bought the house in Gustine for about 1/4 the price.



      Greetings Ahmed!

      I guess it must have been after he moved further south, possibly to Walden? I know he was in a mobile home at the time because he mentioned that he was replacing the floor in it, an easy job.....or, so he said. Anyway, after Clint told me that story, I was amazed at how he kept his cool and motored right through a close call like that as though it happened all the time!

      Later on he emailed and asked me if he might stop by and visit a couple of days if he came to Louisville just to see what Louisville looked like now after being gone 40+ years. At last! Here was my chance to finally meet him in the flesh. He had an Aunt who still lived here (if she was still with us) as far as he knew. The funny thing was, he wanted to see if he could get here only riding on regional jets and only making one or two changes of plane at the most! Why torture yourself I asked, and he said he just wanted to see if it could be done! After a while had passed I asked him if he was going to do it, and he said no, it was just a thought, so I never got to meet him.

      Like many of us, Clint was a dreamer. I'm glad to know we aren't the only ones.

      Best regards,
      Jeff Jarvis

      God's "Curse" to aviation!

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      Post #75572, posted on 05-18-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Ken,

      Yes, it was Clints mom. She introduced herself, however for my memory and the story, name was left out!

      Keep em separated!
      Steve

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      Post #75573, posted on 05-18-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      I met Clint's mother the first time I visited ATP and saw her maybe a couple times thereafter. Very nice lady!

      Clint's famous quote about his mother: "My mother always used to say, 'That money will be gone in about a month after I die'. Well, she was wrong! It lasted two months!"

      Apparently she had left him some money, a good amount, from a 401K account, life insurance, or something. Not exactly sure what.

      Regards,

      ahmed

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      Post #75574, posted on 05-18-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Hi Jeff,

      Yes, that must've been either Walden or one before that, possibly Bakersfield. Clint did have a lot of relatives in Louisville at one time and did go back occasionally, unfortunately for funerals.

      Regards,

      ahmed

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      Ken Miller


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      Post #75576, posted on 05-18-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      I believe that Clint lived in Weldon which is east of Bakersfield near Lake Isabella. I was never close friends with Clint but really appreciate people who were sharing their memories. As I've said earlier I did see and follow ATP's ups and downs over the years. I believe one of his workers fell asleep driving from San Jose to Gustine during the move. Hopefully no injuries but that might have been the end of the ATP van :-(

      As could be expected Clint was burned out on airline modeling and the business after bankruptcy. On a positive note he did seem more settled and at ease in his later years.

      He drove one of his Lincolns from San Jose to Phoenix for Airliners in 2000. He also drove from Weldon to LAX for Airliners in 2014. I think he had a little Fiat 500. Seeing him at the show was a highlight for many including all of the airline modelers.

      Ken

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      Post #75593, posted on 05-19-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Clint's mom was named Irene. She and Clint's grandmother passed away within months of each other. Once that happened, he acted like a "drunken sailor" to use his words. She was very kind and the one who did all the packaging.

      Mark

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      Post #75601, posted on 05-20-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      As for personal memories involving Clint, in 1981 an airliner modeller friend and I flew from our home airport, MSP, to LAX where Clint met us and brought us with him to visit some of the LA area hobby shops that carried his decals as well as (Mike?) Ryan of Runway 3-0 decals and OOP kit collector/seller Bob Keller. Clint then took us (in His VW Rabbit complete with auxiliary fuel tank -- an aircraft fuel bladder) to his home in San Jose where he accommodated us for a few nights in a spare bedroom.

      During our stay, he took us to the SFO TWA maintenance base where he worked. He fired up a ground power unit connected to an L-1011 and gave us a tour of its interior which we entered through the nose gear bay (or was that the 707 or 727 he also took us through?) When we asked him about maybe firing up the engines (we weren't entirely serious) his reply was, "I want to get laid off but not that bad." Also remember he was weary of working nights and could have gotten days in NYC but passed on the opportunity because "New York is the closest thing to hell on earth."

      Other memories of our visit:

      It was fairly plain to see that Clint's mother was indeed the business mind behind ATP while Clint was the visionary; and Irene was indeed a very gracious and hospitable person, which also 'rubbed off' on Clint. She even fed stray cats in their back yard -- at feeding time I observed ~10+ cats crowding around a 9x13 cake pan filled with food.

      We saw Clint's built models; to keep his models from being tail sitters, he glued the front tires to the shelf! And his modelling techniques were, shall we say, crude, even by 1981 standards. Painting was done by rattle can and brush, plus foil. He had just gotten an airbrush for which he had purchased an air compressor of the type and size used for airing car tires, ie major overkill.

      At the end of our stay, Clint drove us to SFO for our redeye flight back to MSP.

      Another memory of Clint is what we called "Clintyisms." As an example, every year he would promote Airliners International in his catalogs. When the upcoming convention was set to be held in Cincinnati, he added to the promo, "finally, a convention where we can get White Castle hamburgers." My friend and I were well aware beforehand of his craving for the original sliders, no doubt dating back to his years in Louisville, another White Castle city.

      All told, were it not for Clint and my aforementioned friend who made me aware of ATP, I may have never gotten into airliner modelling. If ATP would have had something like a frequent flyer program, both of us would no doubt have attained 'elite' status. My friend, in fact, recently shared with me a VHS video he had made in the 1980s of the completed airliner models in our collections...today I have no idea where we found the time to do the dozens seen in the video...all of which were built with ATP decals or others sold by Clint (except for a few with kit decals.) As others have testified, without exception the numerous decal/kit/conversion orders we placed with ATP were 100% accurate and shipped next business day as promised in the catalog. All of which made 'the way it ended' for Clint so sad to see.

      Todd
      PHX

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      Post #75602, posted on 05-20-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      I visited Clint at Abelia in the late 80s. Met his mom, a kind, gracious lady.
      There was something about that stuffed cat in the showcase, though.....

      Alan Aronoff
      CYUL

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      Post #75603, posted on 05-20-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Hi Alan,

      I also remember the stuffed cat! A colorful guy for sure.

      On the May ACafe e-chat, I told the group about the time when I went to the wedding of one of my best friends. This was decades after my first meetings with Clint, and after he had left the modeling business. The Father-In-Law-To-Be used to work for TWA with Clint in the Superbay. I asked him if he knew Clint and he said, “Oh yeah!” He then told me a story which, knowing Clint’s knowledge personally, really didn’t surprise me.

      One day, Clint came back from a block of days off. In the Superbay, there was an L-1011 with Lockheed whitecoats crawling all over it. He said, “What’s going on?” The in charge mech said that there was some problem with the airplane and itemized the symptoms. The aircraft had been there for four days. Everyone was baffled. Quietly, Clint left and reappeared a few moments later with a bagged part. He said that the airplane was fixed and signed off.

      Clint had a knowledge of airplanes that was second to none. He gave me one of his CV-800 manuals when I was still a young pilot. I still have it today and cherish it. Every hydraulic line was colored in. It was clear how he learned...hours and hours of study- very visual. Looking at his Convair manual taught me how to learn a new airplane! Clint loved these machines and had a special gift.

      And, in addition to that, he was really the first airliner model after-marketer. When I discovered Clint and ATP, for me, it was the coolest thing ever. Now, I could build the model that I wanted, not just with the Airfix decals. Fantastic!

      I really do miss that guy!

      Cheers,

      Dan Dornseif IPMS# 51664

      "Hold on, we're goin' for broke!"
      -Joe Patroni

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      Post #75606, posted on 05-21-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      I loved dealing with Clint. Always was taken care of. I remember one time I ordered a 1/100 scale kit, and it was pricy. Clint did not take the order, someone else did. Clint called me up to see if I knew the kit was costly. I said yes I know it is. Great customer service. Miss him. Getting his catalog was like getting the Sears Wish Book at Christmas time.

      Ed

      On the bench and in the works....

      A mixed bag of aircraft.

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      Post #75611, posted on 05-21-2020 GMT-5 hours    
      Dan,

      Not sure if Clint was the first. But he was certainly the longest lasting in the day.
      I also recall dealing with Steve Mason at Victor 66 / Gate 66 in Santee, CA. I believe
      I had contact with Steve before I knew of Clint.

      Alan Aronoff
      CYUL